I don’t know how many times I’ve heard the phrase, “Well all religions are the basically the same. They all talk about love and peace.” That’s like saying all cars are the same because they have four wheels and doors. ◔_◔
Statements like the above are usually trotted out by the religiously illiterate with an ostentatious air of liberality and tolerance which reeks of condescension, ignorance and self-importance. Not only do they dismiss out of hand the possibility of religious truth but in doing so ignore the foundations of different faiths which explains their separateness despite having some surface commonalities.
Think about it for a moment. If all religions only preached love and peace there would be only one religion, but they don’t. They have different gods and different methods of worshiping those gods. Now logically they cannot all be true and logically it is possible that none of them are true, however, the only reason one believes in something in the first place is because one believes it to be true. To then come along and say that everyone is just worshiping the same thing but in different way is arrogant beyond description.
The foundation of Christianity is not, “Love your neighbour as yourself”, or, “Love your enemies”, or even to take care of the poor. It is the confession of Peter when Jesus was asking the disciples who the people were saying Jesus was.
And they said, ‘Some say you are John the Baptist: others say you are Elijah or Jeremiah or one of the prophets.’ And He said to them, “And whom do you say that I am?” And Peter replied, “You are the Christ: the Son of the living God.” And Jesus said to him, ‘Blessed are you Simon Barjonas for flesh and blood did not reveal this to you but my Father in heaven.’
Matthew 16:14-17
So here we have the fundamental truth of the Christian faith. God has a Son and that Son is Jesus the Christ. There is no Christianity without this verse. It doesn’t matter if you agree with this verse or not. It is the foundation from which all else flows. The Apostle John clarifies this succinctly:
Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
1 John 2:22,23
So the most holy tenet of the Christian faith is that God has a Son and that Son is Jesus Christ. To deny Him is to deny the Father (God).
The Qur’an says that God has no Son. A quick search on YouTube turns up a lot of Muslims arguing that one of the most basic and holy tenets of their faith is that God has no Son. To say so is blasphemy. They even get so ridiculous as to say that for God to have a Son He would have to have relations with a woman. Never mind that they basically elevate Mohammed to the same place, they just don’t call him that.
Even if the two faiths agreed on things like love, (Which they don’t. Nowhere in the Qur’an, according to ex-Muslims, will you find the teaching to love your enemies), they disagree on the most fundamental level. One says it is blasphemy to say that God has a Son while the other says to deny that God’s Son is to deny God Himself.
The simple equation is Allah ≠ Jehovah. Christians and Muslims do NOT worship the same God. Christianity and Islam are not two different paths to the same destination. They are diametrically opposed to one another. On a spiritual level there can be no agreement. No appeasement will suffice and no compromise is acceptable.
It is for this reason that many Christians are, to say the least, a little concerned about the recent attempts to find common ground between Islam and Christianity. Labeled “Chrislam” by many, it is an effort largely engineered and promoted by Rick Warren of Saddleback Church who has apparently taken on the mantle of America’s pastor from Billy Graham .
While it is worthwhile to promote peace and harmony between Christians and Muslims as human beings, and I will give Rick Warren the benefit of the doubt that this is what he is doing until I hear different, it would be spiritual suicide to attempt to find common ground between the Islamic faith and the Christian.
There is none.
If you can compromise a fundamental belief . . . it isn’t.
If Crazy Fits Wear It 
Sorry I don’t agree with parts of your assertions. From some of your statements I assume you have not studied the history of the Christian Church or understood the main gist of the Koran. For example your statements about how Muslims see Jesus are way off beam. Might I suggest you Google Karen Armstrong and her TED address which might bring you to a point where you can at least begin to see why the Religions do share some main ideas. Check out their versions of the Golden Rule for a start. Surely even a superficial look at the history of the Christian Church would show that Christians are just as likely as Muslims to misunderstand the teachings in their Holy scriptures. In addition to reflect Jesus’ teaching on the sermon on the Mount you really have to be more sympathetic to those you disagree with. Forgive your enemies is not quite the same as saying they are wrong!
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Actually I read the words in the Koran. Jesus is just a messenger and not the Son of God. It’s really not complicated. It doesn’t matter how much they say they revere Him or honour Him. They deny Him and therefore they deny God. It doesn’t matter that they may agree in other areas.
Where is it that you think I’m unsympathetic? I was not focusing on the other teachings of Christianity nor was I trying to minimalize them. I was merely pointing out that we do not worship the same God. Agreeing with the teachings of Christ or saying how good a man He was doesn’t mean that our faiths are the same.
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Numerous titles are given to Jesus in the Quran and in Islamic literature, the most common being al-Masīḥ (“the Messiah”). Jesus is also, at times, called “Seal of the Israelite Prophets”, because, in general Muslim belief, Jesus was the last prophet sent by God to guide the Children of Israel. Jesus is seen in Islam as a precursor to Muhammad, and is believed by Muslims to have foretold the latter’s coming. (If a Christian called Jesus the Messiah would you really call him a heretic?)
Muslims believe that Jesus will return to earth near the Day of Judgment to restore justice and to defeat al-Masih ad-Dajjal (“the false messiah”, also known as the Antichrist). (Check up Wikipedia on Jesus in the Koran and you will find heaps more eg acceptance that Jesus was born of a Virgin.
Another complication is that among the 32,000 plus Christian denominations there are not only widely diverging ideas on who Jesus was, there are also substantially different ideas on what is meant by “God” Read the book “Four Gods” – if you don’t believe me.
In any event what you say you believe about Jesus’ status is neither here nor there. Surely the real test is whether or not you have the faith and trust to follow his teaching. He said forgive your enemies – how do you feel about soldiers going off to kill enemies? Do you want criminals to be forgiven? Do you have genuine compassion for those who don’t share your faith – and how to you show that compassion? From your post you don’t give the impression of one who shares meals with those of different faiths, but only you know the answer to that. He said don’t store up treasures on Earth….how big is the bank account? In the words of Eliza in “My Fair Lady” don’t talk of love, show me!
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It’s quite amazing how you judge me based on one post with a very narrow focus.
My problem is not with Muslims but Islam. I have no problem working with or interacting socially with Muslims at all so I don’t know where you’re coming from.
I especially don’t have a clue what you are talking about when you mention soldiers going off to kill. What does that have to do with my post?
Islam can give Jesus all the names and titles they want but to deny Him the title Son is to deny who He was. Even if a person who called himself a Christian but denied that Jesus was the Son of God they would not have the Father and would not, in truth, be a Christian.
As for the Qur’an saying that Jesus did not have an earthly father you’re right but you leave out the rest. It clearly says that this does not make Him God’s Son it just means that God willed it to be that way.
Just for proof I propose a little test for you. Go to a few Muslims and ask them if they agree with the following verse from the Bible where Gabriel tells Mary how she will have a child:
“And the angel said to her, “The holy spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you, so that the holy one to be born shall be called the Son of God.” Luke 1:35
“What you say you believe about Jesus’ status is neither here nor there.” This is my whole point. What you believe about Jesus’ status IS everything! C.S. Lewis said that Jesus is either Lord, liar or lunatic. If He is not Lord, (which title He gets form being the Son), then to follow His teachings would be to follow the teachings of one of the biggest liars in history or a complete lunatic on the same level as a man who believes he is a poached egg.
Who He is, is not a trivial thing. It is everything.
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Honestly from what I’ve seen you say about the Quran so far, it seems you have not read it cover to cover. The Quran is the only book in the world that claims it came from God. On top of that…it is the only book in the world that shows solid, proof and evidence that it is from God. And even further, it challenges every single human being on the face of this earth to find one contradiction in it. And you will never be able to fine even one. Challenge me on that, and I will show you myself. It is the only book that is read side by side, in the original language it was revealed in along with the translation. Both the Bible, Torah, the Scriptures of David, Moses, and the Scrolls of Abraham were mentioned in the Qur’an as revelations that were sent to the given communities. This shows that the teachings of God through Islam are inclusive to all of mankind, and not exclusive. Furthermore, the Quran does not leave anything out. And history clearly shows that it has never been altered, changed, and has not been corrupted by human hands; this you can not argue because even non-Muslim historians agree with this fact. Your quoting the Bible, not knowing that the Bible was altered many times; there are many versions of the Bible, many editions, and contributions have been made to the Bible by men who came many years after the passing of Jesus; history also proves this…so you can not deny that. Even Christian priests themselves admit that the Bible is inspired word. Words that were “inspired” to men.Therefore, this means verses have been contributed to the Bible by these men. Which means, there are many contradictions, and different ideas prevalent in many of its passages. If the message of God was altered from its original, and many editions and versions were made by mere human beings; then it would make sense that God the most High would send a correction and guidance for the generations to come after. That’s pure logic. Every time God sent a Prophet to mankind it was so that the people can be guided to worship their Lord and Savior. And each time God sent with the messengers teachings, he completed the commandments and teachings for them. Why is it that mere men that God has created…. have the audacity to put themselves in a place to make different versions and editions of Gods words? Isn’t that itself disrespect to the Creator of you and I? If you don’t think that’s disrespectful to the one who gave life to this entire universe……..then you really don’t know who God is. Lastly….when Muslims mention how Jesus could not have been the Son of God; and that it would have to mean God would have to marry a human being. That’s true! You are saying, he gave birth to a son; if you went as far as saying that about the most Powerful One.. who created you and I…..how come you think its weird for someone to add a mother into the whole idea? So he can have a son…..but he cant have a wife? Does that make sense to you? The One who Created this entire universe, the heavens, the earth, and all that is in between…….if he claimed for himself a son…that would be categorizing the God of all Creations into a category. History shows that the idea of the trinity came many years of the passing of Jesus. Islam is one. While Christianity has thousands of branches compared to Islam. The Qur’an clarifies this. All Muslims agree that Jesus was an honorable man, a man sent by God. On the other hand Christians can not come into full agreement on who Jesus was. Some say he is “God who came in flesh”, others say, “the Son of God”, “He is God.” ; “He is not God.” …. according to Christians he is a man of different faces. In Islam he has one face. Also if you believe God came in the form of Jesus, or Jesus was the son of God and he came in the form of man…that would mean he would have to look like a certain ethnicity or race. Some portray him as blonde haired and blue eyed, others as black, or Chinese. Each ethnic group wants to claim him! When in reality he was Middle Eastern. Isn’t that unfair to all of mankind? Doesn’t that show that God is being selective and exclusive to one group? And if God isn’t being selective, doesn’t that limit God to one definite category and comparing him to a mere mortal when he’s not? If you truly believe Gods Power is infinite, then you wouldn’t attempt to even think he is like his Creation. You would know that He is unique, the most High, Elevated, and above His creation. You would never attempt to conceptualize God into what you can imagine. Gods infinite Might and Power can not be imagined. And, there are many similarities between the verses in the Bible and those in the Qur’an. Why? Because they are both books that were sent by God to guide mankind. There are also differences. Why? Because the Bible has verses that were added, there are many editions, and versions. While the Qur’an stayed intact and is more reliable. The Quran was sent as a correction to the mistake that mankind has done with the previous books. The only book that begins with the Mercy and Compassion of God each 114 Chapters. The only book in the world, that repeats over and over….”…This is the book, in which there is no doubt.” . God promised to protect this book from the hands of men. In one verse God says, “And this message surely has been made easy to remember by heart….it will verily be guarded” Until now, millions of Muslims memorize each of its 10,000 pages by heart. In fact it isn’t unusual to find a seven or five year old who memorizes it all. This makes it the most memorized book in the world. If all the Bibles, all the Talmuds, all of the Scrolls of Previous Prophets were to be thrown out into the ocean…….including the Quran. The Quran will be the only book that will be able to be brought back in a matter of days. This itself is a miracle. And no other religion can beat that. Islam is amazing. Open a Quran and you’ll never see verses of hatred, or malice. You’ll see justice, fairness, love, mercy and compassion. Mohamed was never placed in a level close to God. Obviously God is better, because he is the Creator of Mohamed, Jesus, and you and I. I bet you believe Mohamed wrote the Quran?? Mohamed went through a lot of hard ships and challenges. So if you think he wrote the Quran…… I challenge you to find his emotions in ONE verse! You won’t be able to find it in any. In the Bible you’ll find the emotions of Peter, Matthew, Luke….and the disciples who wrote most of its verse. In Shakespeare you’ll find the emotions of Shakespeare. In C.S. Lewis you will find C.S. Lewis. But in the Qur’an? You’ll find God. Period. If one refuses to read for himself…the only book in the universe that claims its from God…then, that person can easily be labeled as ignorant to its divine teachings.
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You may believe what you will. You are obviously only listening to Muslim ‘historians’ when you refer to the Bible. It is however, irrelevant.
If the Bible is corrupted then you could make Jesus into anything you want. Buddhist, Hindu, etc. By undermining the Bible you undermine your own position.
Romans 1
3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, who was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
Paul persecuted the Church before he wrote these verses and is therefore a powerful witness to the truth since he claimed to have seen the risen Christ.
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With all due respect in order for this debate to continue in a fair and just way to the topics we are discussing; you must go back to each of the arguments I presented above, break them down one by one, explain your side effectively, and make up your own logical and factual views that will overcome everything I said above. And you haven’t because you can’t. On the other hand, I firmly believe by undermining the Quran you undermine your own position. Until then, you may believe in what you which. Qur’an; “Tell them O Muhammad, for you is your religion and for me is mines.” Quran, in another verse; “Verily you are the ones who love them, but they love you not; for you believe in all of the Original Scriptures, the Taurat (Torah) , the Injeel (Gospel), while they disbelieve in this message from God…” Referring to the Christians and Jews at that time, not now; although it can be applied right now also. Furthermore; the message of God clearly says….”Indeed, those who believed in God and those who were Jews or Christians or Sabeans – those among them who believed in Allah and the Last Day and did righteousness – will have their reward with their Lord, and no fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieve.” While on the other hand, in the Christian religion if anyone disbelieves in Jesus the punishment is more grave then one who disbelieves in the God who created Jesus! lol. That’s sad. And that’s limiting the wonders and Powers of God by saying he took for himself a son. Quran; “And they say God took for Himself a son, all that is in the heavens rupture therefrom and the earth splits cleft asunder and the mountains collapse in devastation. That they attribute to the most Merciful a son. And it is not appropriate for the Most Merciful that He should take a son. There is no one in the heavens in the earth, but that comes to the most Merciful as a servant” Quran19:90-93 . I will leave you with this. It’s said by Jesus himself, from the Bible. “The Father is greater than I.” John 14:28, Christians say, “Jesus is equal to the father”. Jesus says, “The Lord our God is one Lord” Mark 12:29, Christians say, “God exists as three persons.” Jesus says, “By myself I can do nothing.” John 5:30, Christians say, “Jesus is all powerful.” Jesus says, “I ascend to My God and your God” John 20:17, meanwhile Christians continue to say, “Jesus is the only son of God.” Does this make sense to you? That the book says one thing, and what comes out the mouth of pastors and priests is another?. Lastly: Who are the only women who cover fully for the purpose of following the commands of God just like Mary the mother of Jesus did? Muslim women. In Leviticus it encourages men to grow beards, who are the only men who grow beards for the purpose of following the teachings of God? Muslim men. The Bible teaches to not eat pork. Other than our fellow Jewish people, who are the only people in the world who stay away from pork for the purpose of following the teachings of God? Muslims. The Bible showed that Jesus Bowed down in prostration to the Father touching his face and forehead to the ground in adoration. Who are the only people who prostrate the way Jesus did in the Bible? Muslims. The Bible teaches to fast on certain days to follow the teachings of the previous Prophets, respectfully? Who are the only people who fast on the days of the previous Prophets? Muslims. Now tell me, if Jesus were to come down right now, and look for the community of his true followers….who would he turn to? Muslims. If the majority of the teachings in the Bible were followed by Christian’s the way Jesus taught it, then there would be a hard time…telling the difference between a Muslim and a Christian. Both are connected because they are messages from God. The only difference is, the Bible has many editions, versions, and has been altered many times. While the Quran is protected from the hands of men until the Last Day. This you can not argue. Peace be upon you, I rest my case and I said what I needed to. I ask if I ever offended you please forgive me, it was not in my intention to do so. :))
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Im so sorry. It sent two times lol. I can’t delete the other one.
:))
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With all due respect in order for this debate to continue in a fair and just way to the topics we are discussing; you must go back to each of the arguments I presented above, break them down one by one, explain your side effectively, and make up your own logical and factual views that will overcome everything I said above. And you haven’t because you can’t. On the other hand, I firmly believe by undermining the Quran you undermine your own position. Until then, you may believe in what you wish. Qur’an; “Tell them O Muhammad, for you is your religion and for me is mines.” Quran, in another verse; “Verily you are the ones who love them, but they love you not; for you believe in all of the Original Scriptures, the Taurat (Torah) , the Injeel (Gospel), while they disbelieve in this message from God…” This verse is referring to the Christians and Jews at that time, not now; although it can be applied right now also. Furthermore; the Quran clearly says in one verse….”Indeed, those who believed in God and those who were Jews or Christians or Sabeans – those among them who believed in Allah and the Last Day and did righteousness – will have their reward with their Lord, and no fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieve.” While on the other hand, in the Christian religion if anyone disbelieves in Jesus the punishment is more grave then one who disbelieves in the God who created Jesus! lol. That’s sad. And that’s limiting the wonders and Powers of God by saying he took for himself a son… Quran; “And they say God took for Himself a son, all that is in the heavens rupture therefrom and the earth splits cleft asunder and the mountains collapse in devastation. That they attribute to the most Merciful a son. And it is not appropriate for the Most Merciful that He should take a son. There is no one in the heavens in the earth, but that comes to the most Merciful as a servant” Quran19:90-93 . I will leave you with this. These are words said by Jesus himself, from the Bible. “The Father is greater than I.” John 14:28, Christians say, “Jesus is equal to the father”. Jesus says, “The Lord our God is one Lord” Mark 12:29, Christians say, “God exists as three persons.” Jesus says, “By myself I can do nothing.” John 5:30, Christians say, “Jesus is all powerful.” Jesus says, “I ascend to My God and your God” John 20:17, meanwhile Christians continue to say, “Jesus is the only son of God.” Does this make sense to you? That the book says one thing, and what comes out the mouth of pastors and priests is another?. Lastly: Who are the only women who cover fully for the purpose of following the commands of God just like Mary the mother of Jesus did? Muslim women. In Leviticus it encourages men to grow beards, who are the only men who grow beards for the purpose of following the teachings of God? Muslim men. The Bible teaches to not eat pork. Other than our fellow Jewish people, who are the only people in the world who stay away from pork for the purpose of following the teachings of God? Muslims. The Bible showed that Jesus Bowed down in prostration to the Father touching his face and forehead to the ground in adoration. Who are the only people who prostrate the way Jesus did in the Bible? Muslims. The Bible teaches to fast on certain days to follow the teachings of the previous Prophets, respectfully? Who are the only people who fast on the days of the previous Prophets? Muslims. Now tell me, if Jesus were to come down right now, and look for the community of his true followers….who would he turn to? Muslims. If the majority of the teachings in the Bible were followed by Christian’s the way Jesus taught it, then there would be a hard time…telling the difference between a Muslim and a Christian. Both are connected because they are messages from God. The only difference is, the Bible has many editions, versions, and has been altered many times. While the Quran is protected from the hands of men until the Last Day. This you can not argue. Peace be upon you, I rest my case and I said what I needed to. I ask if I ever offended you please forgive me, it was not in my intention to do so. :))
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You are forgiven my friend but you did not offend me. You showed much zeal and have obviously done much study on your faith.
Let me put some things forward to think about.
They cannot both be from God if one says Jesus is the Son of God and the other says He is not.
You can try to convince yourself that Jesus is just a prophet and not the Son of God but God Himself said of Him, “Behold, this is My beloved Son in whom I am well pleased. Listen to Him.”
Paul also writes, “…Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
May God give you grace to understand the truth about His precious Son.
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True. However, I mentioned that the books revealed from God tom mankind is the ORIGINAL Bible, in it’s original language that was revealed to Jesus. The Original Torah, in it’s original language that was revealed to Moses. The Original Psalms of David, that was revealed to David, in its original language. And the Original Scrolls of Abraham and the scrolls of all Previous Prophets, ALL came from One God. The Lord of you and I. Who created you and I. The difference between the scripture I have in my hands and yours is that the Original Bible was not preserved. And contributions have been made to it by the “12 Disciples” most of whom came many years after the Passing of Jesus. So they weren’t alive during the time of Jesus, to even be appointed by him. History shows this. The Bible we are left with now is no longer the Divine Word of God. Passages, and historical evidences not provided by God or Jesus have also been presented in to the Bible throughout the course of years after the Passing of Jesus. Concepts that Jesus himself didn’t teach such as the trinity were also added. Greek and Roman influences surround the entire teachings of God in the Bible. Therefore as a follower and firm believer in the Divinity of God, I refuse to believe that God is three….that’s Polytheism honestly. If you believe God is all Powerful, and infinitely unique and Greater than his creation….how can you ever fathom that He would take for Himself a Son? When he is above, what he has created? Ask yourself dear brother; How can three be one? And how can one be three? Would a Divine and Morally Upright God, make the nature of His basic Existence very difficult to understand? And you and I can both agree the words, of Peter, Paul, Matthew, Luke, Jeremiah, and John were what influenced the passages of the Bible we have today. I know you’d argue that “God spoke through them”. But if He did? Where are their proof that God chose them? Where is their evidence, and miracles? All the Previous Prophets and Men of God, came with miracles as proof to show that they were sent by God? Where is theirs? Why should I follow an account they uttered with their own lips and written down years after Jesus passed? How can I believe what they are saying about Jesus, God, and the Holy Spirit all being One/Three……is true? Does that even make sense? The Quran is not claimed to be owned by anyone. Even Muhammad himself, would never claim to be the author of the Quran. The Quran is the ONLY book in the world that divinely dictates its from God, backs up this proof with firm evidences, and challenges its readers to find one contradiction in it. That’s the difference between the Quran and the Altered Bible we have today. Ask yourself. Why is there only one version, of the Quran with no contradictions. And why are there countless versions of the Bible, with many different editions, and different/contradicting account regarding many narratives? If you read the Quran in English. You will see God in it. Not Paul, Peter, Luke Matthew etc. The Quran was sent as a correction to the alterations made in Previous Scriptures, and as a guidance and mercy to mankind. I’m so sorry to overwhelm you with so much information. I’m usually not one to write on uselessly. But like a wise man once told me, ‘When you taste the sweetness of faith, and know for a fact that you are on a path of truth without a doubt…you would wish that goodness you felt to others around you.’ Perhaps give the Quran a chance, read it for fun. I’m saying this because even I, as a Muslim own a Bible and know its teachings like the back of my hand. I can’t blindly follow a faith my parents taught me, so I educated myself about other beliefs. And it made me love Islam even more. Open your heart to all possibilities, and I ask that God Blesses you and your family. I’m done, I promise I won’t reply again. Your probably tired of my Babbling. Forgive me. And I ask God sincerely….whichever one of us is on the wrong path to be Guided by Him, God is the one who knows us better than we know ourselves and for him to show both me and you the Light of his Glory in this life and in the one after. Amen. Peace be upon You.
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